Interview with a Scammer – Part Three
Editor’s Disclaimer: Whilst I am reporting an actual conversation, I have no way of verifying the information or details contained within. The interviewee contacted me voluntarily and anonymously claiming to be an ex-scammer who is now studying in the UK. I have agreed to tell his story but this is told ‘as is’ without guarantee as to accuracy or truthfulness. To protect our users we have agreed that the interviewee, who will be known by the pseudonym “John”, will not directly take part in discussions or comments and will not join our community. I do not know how long “John” will maintain contact and in the event that contact is broken, this series of blogs will be discontinued.
We were contacted by reformed Nigerian advance fee fraud scammer “John”. He asked us to publish his story to help warn our readers about the dangers of entering into transactions with strangers via email. You can read the first part of our interview with “John” Here.
Scam Detective: Before we start, I’d like to apologise for losing my temper with you last time we spoke. I said some things that I should not have said and it was rude. I’m sorry.
John: It’s ok, I understand you getting angry. I know I have done some very bad things.
Scam Detective: I want to talk about the gang you worked with. Tell me about your relationship with the rest of the gang.
John: It was not good. The gang was full of bad people. There was always pressure to send more emails and get more victims. It was always “send more, send more”. When I was promoted and was asking victims for money, the boss always wanted to know when the money was coming. Whatever I was doing was not good enough and if he thought I was not working hard enough he would threaten me and my family. One time I tried to run my own scam on the side and cut the boss out. He found out and beat me badly. He watched me much closer after that and I didn’t dare to try it again.
Another time I got into big trouble because of a victim who kept saying he had sent money when he hadn’t. He sent me 4 fake wire transfer codes and each time the boss went to pick up the money they told him that the number was wrong. The last time the office staff called the police and the boss had to run away. I got beat really bad for that one. I think the guy was just playing with me for fun and never had any real money.
Scam Detective: Did you get a lot of replies like that?
John: I had a few but I learned how to tell if they were serious or not.
Scam Detective: How?
John: A serious victim would give me the information I asked for straight away so they could get the money. If they were playing a game then they would tell long stories about themselves and give lots of reasons why they could not send the money, or pretend that they had sent it like the guy I just told you about.
Scam Detective: What about relationships with other scammers? Was there co-operation between different gangs?
John: There are lots of gangs playing the game. We would sell lists of active email addresses who had not sent money to us to other gangs who would try different scams with them. There was a lot of competition too. One time my email was hacked by another gang who stole all of my contacts. I lost a lot of money that day.
Scam Detective: You mentioned your family earlier, did they know how you were making money?
John: Yes. Lots of young people in my country play the (scam) game. Many people think that white people deserve to have their money taken because of the way they have treated Africans in the past. My family knew what I was doing, but didn’t like it very much.
Scam Detective: If they didn’t like it, did they ever try and talk you into getting a “real” job?
John: They were realistic. They knew that I had no chance of getting a job that paid as well as the game, so we agreed not to talk about it.
Scam Detective: You were caught by the EFCC. Tell me how that happened?
John: They know that the internet cafes in Lagos are full of scammers and every now and then one will get raided. I was about to collect a big payout from a victim in the US, about $10,000 (£6,000) and the emails were open on my screen. They arrested me and took me away for questioning. They offered me a lighter sentence if I gave them the names of the boss and the other members of the gang, so I did. At my trial the judge said that if I had not helped them, he would have given me 5 years, but only gave me 2.
Scam-Detective: Can you give our readers any tips about how they can avoid getting scammed?
John: The biggest thing I can say is to delete the emails and never to reply. Once you reply your email address will be put on a list and sold to other gangs, even if you never reply again. It just tells them that the address is real and that somebody reads email going to that address. If they can’t get you with 419 (advance fee fraud) they will try phishing or viruses to get your banking details and take your money that way.
I used lots of different stories to get people to send money. I used the dying widow story a lot, saying that I was an old lady dying of cancer and had fallen out with my children. I wanted to give my money to charity and didn’t trust them to carry out my wishes, so was looking for someone outside of the country to make sure it went to the right place. So whatever the story is, make sure you delete the email, because you can be sure it is a scam.
Another thing is not to put email addresses anywhere on the internet. If it is on a guestbook or message board, or on a website anywhere then the foot soldiers will find it and put it on their list.
Scam Detective: What about our readers who have relatives or friends that are being scammed as we speak but are finding it difficult to persuade them that they really are being scammed?
John: I would often get messages from victims saying that their son or daughter had told them they were being scammed. I would try and convince them that I was real and if they had already sent money they would usually keep sending it because they had sent too much to back out and needed to get the big payout to replace their savings or whatever.
I would say that if you think your mom or dad is being scammed then show them everything you can about the 419 (advance fee fraud) scam and keep showing them different websites that warn people about it. They should stop replying and the scammer will give up in time because they want to spend time on people who are going to pay. If you have to, take away their computer so they can’t email any more. Keep telling them that the big payout is not real and never was real, and that any money they have sent is gone and they will never get it back.
Scam Detective: Thank you John.
John: You are welcome. Thank you for talking to me again.
At the conclusion of part 2 of this interview, I said that “John” should feel guilt for the rest of his life for what he has done to his victims. I recognise that this was anger talking and I should not have said it. “John” seems to be an intelligent, articulate young man who, with the right guidance and influences, could put his considerable talents to good use. If he continues his education and is able to put his past behind him and pursue a worthwhile and rewarding career then he could achieve this. He could, however, just as easily slip back into the high risk/reward lifestyle that experienced in his youth and spend the rest of his life in and out of prison. I hope that his choices lead him down the right path.
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The Office of Fair Trading has declared February “Scam Awareness Month” with the launch of a brand new television advertising campaign and the introduction of “Scamnesty” bins around the country, where you can bin your scam letters for good.
They also want you to report any scam emails you receive, or websites you suspect of being phony.
Tags: 419, Advance Fee Fraud, Email Scams, Interview with a Scammer
Cleaning Contractor in Wrexham
Wow, I have just read through all the articles in the series.
What struck me is quite clearly not enough is being done to catch the scammers, why not scam them in reverse? set up a false email, let it get harvested when the scam email appears, play them back. Whent he codes are sent over to collect the money have the police there waiting.
Does Africa have entrapment laws?
Good luck John, make a clean break, start a new life and start doing the odd bit of charity work to make up for this – a few hours a week can make a difference to someones life. Over a lifetime you will have paid back for your fraud many times over, but you will sleep easier of a night.
Quite frankly, both sides of the conversation appear to be contributed by a scam baiter. The information supposedly from the scammer doesn’t sound accurate to how a scammer would respond, at all.
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Sarah, actually such 419eater counter-scams are quite common, but the Nigerian police are very slow and sometimes corrupt.
waist of flesh…
i sure as hell hope you wont sleep easier AT night…
you talking about people in your gang as bad people…
your just as bad….in a way you even help kill people…
you made them money to buy weapons…
so John became an hero asap…
thank you that is all….
Editor’s response: Thank you for your comments. I too felt deep anger when talking to “John” but have since revised my opinion. If “John” is being honest (and I think he may be) then he is trying to make some small amends for his previous activities.
In reply to GL (#62) who wrote:
Because of course all scammers are the same, and would reply to the questions in exactly the same way…..
I have commented previously on this. “John” does not have a fantastic grasp of English. As such I have had to rewrite many of his responses to make them clear and understandable to our readers. I have also stated that I have been unable to verify “John’s” claims to be a reformed scammer. Whatever his history, it is clear that he has a deep understanding of how these scams work and if he’s not actually a scammer, he could be and the interview gives valuable insight and advice to help our readers to avoid being scammed. Which is of course the aim of the website.
I enjoyed the article and thanks because of posting such valuable confer improved of all of us to accept, I aid to about it both salutary and pedagogical and I forecast to inspect it as again as I can.
[...] Interview with a Scammer – Part Three | Scam Detectives [...]
He owns a BMW yet rents a computer for scamming? Why not buy a brand new one? and do it inside his own house?
Don’t believe all of the nonsense the so called John has told you…truth is, they are no criminal gangs involved in scamming in Nigeria…infact most of what he described to you is what s referred to as ‘Yahoo Yahoo’ in Nigeria and it doen’t involve an organised criminal gang running it..the big truth is, that most of the guys who go into scamming start at a very early age like John most have started at 15 with the active knowledge of their parents..who push them into it, when they see other kids that have started making money to support their families thru it..most of them start straight out of high school whether they can speak or write English well enough and many of them are finding it hard to ever go back to school for higher learning…John has distorted so much facts claiming he works for a boss…young guys who work for any so called boss..who surprisingly might be someone as young as John, are those who can’t afford the regular cost of having to pay at an internet cafe to get connected to the net..they need a so called boss to sponsor their regular browsing to until they get their first break…and they then split it with the suppossed boss say 60-40 in the boss’s favour..from that point they break solo and start doing their own thing except they need help on any issue…John, has painted a picture of been forced into organised crime by some faceless boss and I believe its the same lies he has told to the British government to come to the UK probably as an asyslum seeker…he’s stolen so much as a fraudster from the good people of the UK, now he is probably on their soil as a guest of their government..what a laughable scam..whilst hard-working Nigerians like us pay through our noses and that of our descent parents to get educated here in the UK..what a big tragedy…@Rogue..he owns a BMW, but has to rent a computer in an internet cafe becos that is where they can use their extractors softwares to extract email addresses from guestbooks and message boards of different websites…the also use the cafes for doing what they call ‘bombing’ the sending of ‘formatted’ scam mails to the email addresses they have extracted…when I say ‘format’ its their jingo for all those lousy stories like ‘am a dying widow, with money to be bequeathed to charity bla..bla..bla…’ His laptop at home would most likely be connected to a dial-up ISP and its connection speed and at times restrictions from the ISPs makes it difficult to use the extractor from the convinience of his home, except they go rent a computer in a cyber cafe where the wireless or VSAT connection makes the speed faster for their softwares…and that I guess was where he was caught..finally, John may have explained some things about their mode of scamming…but he distorted too many truths and told a lot of lies…if u want more info about scammers in Nigeria, then the editor can do well to contact me, I did be glad to expose them..
Enjoyed the article but was put off by the interviewer more than the interviewee.
It’s blatantly obvious that this entire interview is contrived. The writing style, pace, and content are all giveaways.
Good article- also kind of felt like the interviewer was really annoying. Good idea interviewer to ask the questions you did, but no one cares about your opinion of the events, his future, and whether he should be absolved or not. An interviewer presents the facts, period.
I was glad HOWEVER you put in your two cents about the greed thing in the second article. I was scammed but didn’t send the money on Ebay, and it was purely by the scammer pulling on my heartstrings. Thank God I read his emails more carefully and saw all the typos from “Ebay” and “Paypal”.
These people ruin lives. Ruin them.
Did anyone else think elements of this article seemed fake?
Also- Anyone find it ironic that you are asked to put your email in below if you want to comment on the blog? Interesting.
#129 : “Gang” doesn’t always mean organized crime, mafia-style. He could very well have been working for a “gang” of 10 or 20 people. All your “information” is just as unverifiable as John’s identity. Don’t go attacking someone’s credibility with unfounded claims unless you are prepared to back them up yourself.
I am one of those who scammers have contacted, and have “played them” (aka, scambaiting). Perhaps I got “John” or a few of his cohorts beaten for sending them on wild goose chases of false payments sent (I’ve used the Western Union ‘fake’ receipt ploy with success, except when the smarter ones tracked it online).
Much of what “John” has claimed carries a ring of truth to how the scam works, and how the scammers are structured. As to his level of sincerity, the writer of these articles alone can judge that; but there are still plenty of “John”s in Nigeria, Burkina-Faso, in other impoverished African countries, along with in Asia, Europe, Russia, Canada, the UK and even the US. I’ve played with a variety of them for 10 years now.
Bottom line: only a desperate, greedy, or foolish person can be taken by a scammer. A scammer is only as effective as the gullibility he/she finds in the intended victim. “John” advises simply delete the emails; and that IS the most effective deterrent to being taken by an online scammer.
But if you like a bit of an exercise in fun and frustrating a would-be scammer, scambaiting is a fun hobby, long as sound guidelines for scambaiting are followed.
Interesting interview.
Agree with deposed prince – the scammer is a convicted criminal who has served penal time as is sorry for what he did. I’m not sure what the interviewer was expecting when he set up a meet to talk about the scammers’ criminal behaviour…
And the basic idea that anyone that gets scammed is looking for money for nothing, and is therefore greedy, still holds – even if the hook is you’re dying and want to give your money to charity, it’s pretty naive to think the scammed were going to give all the millions to charity.
John is still a scammer. This is why:
he says he was sentenced to 2 years imprisonment. Scammers in Nigeria never see the inside of a prison. At least not for fraud.
I beg to differ:
This article published today tells of a 62 year old Nigerian woman imprisoned for her part in a land scam
How the hell is this criminal allowed in to the UK? What chance of him returning to Nigeria!!!?
YOU WILL SOONEST BE VERY DEAD COZ YOU CANT DO THS OK. I TELL UK POLICE AND LARY KING AM OGA OK AND YOU CANT SAY YOU DO 419 NIGERIA SCAM OK I WANT MY EXPENSIVE BECAOS IT IS A DOPLIMAT BUSINESS I MAKE A LIVNG YOU CRAZY MAN AND I AM GOING TO BE TELLING MY PASTER TO MAKE YOU RUN MAD LIKE VOODO YOU FOOL COZ WE NEED THE EXPENSIVE OK.
GOOD BY B*****
Editors note – Thank you for your comment. I think.
well.
browsing the efcc s webbsite, you can get some info about caught scammers, but its usually about corruption in higer places and 10-20 ordinary scammers now and then.For us to believe “john” we need to have a nigerian society more transparent.
I was scammed too 3 years ago, a scammer posing as 2 at least , different women.
So in my case it wasnt about greed. But the story is similar to John s.
all the “extras” coming up when you ve paid once and such.
Delayed flights, required stay at hotels and such, Visa that could be made anyplace aso
yes the scammer is greedy, who needs such a car, and all that he bought.
The greedy scammer reveals himself due to that.
he s greedy, therefore he could know and recognize greed on the net too.
Its not at all about not getting a job. John would probably steal from the staff.
Bert in Sweden
Great article! I am just starting out in all this and trying to learn more about it – resources like this article are incredibly helpful.
Frankly, I would never get angry at someone who was born in a place where there are very few opportunities and had to maintain a family. If we want to fight organized crime we should start by thinking why, why these people get into this. It is not a matter of making choices for a good or bad job, and if people could see reality in Nigeria and other poor countries they would realize it is not a matter of being good or bad. It´s hard to make choices when you have to feed your family and there are no jobs. I don´t see why this article demonizes the scammer. I understand something must be done to protect the victims, but this article sounds lame.
Hi Leila,
Thank you for your comment and for visiting Scam Detectives.
I appreciate your thoughts about the “choices” available to John in Nigeria, and your thoughts about the motivations behind organised crime.
I have already addressed the criticism levelled at me for getting angry with John and have agreed that perhaps it was unproductive, but I struggle to accept that a lack of jobs and the need to support one’s family is an acceptable reason for criminal activity. If that were the case, certainly here in the UK there would be a lot less people in prison.
I have a family to support and live in an area where suitable employment is difficult to find. A recent department store opening saw over 700 submitted applications competing for 20 minimum wage positions.
Did I resort to scamming people online to make a living?
No.
I carried out a full self-assessment of my skill sets and (with zero startup capital and no outside funding) started my own business to ensure that my mortgage continues to be paid and my family continue to enjoy a reasonable standard of living. I created my own opportunity. We’re not wealthy, but we get by.
John is now attempting to educate himself so that he can find legitimate and gainful employment and I wish him all the very best of luck in his endeavours.
Thanks again,
Charles
Scam Detectives
I’m the one who sent the four numbers!!! hahah good you got that beat’n boy! merry Christmas from Texas!
Hey, nice site you got here! Keep up the excellent job
At least through articles like this people can be more aware of these scams and hopefully avoid them. Good luck to John.
woot, thank you! I’ve finally came across a website where the owner knows what they’re talking about. You know how many results are in Google when I check.. too many! It’s so annoying having to go from page after page after page, wasting my day away with tons of owners just copying eachother’s articles… ugh. Anyway, thankyou for the information anyway, much appreciated.
“…I struggle to accept that a lack of jobs and the need to support one’s family is an acceptable reason for criminal activity.”
You’re just as bad as they are. It takes two to colonize.
Detailed article can i translate into German for our sites viewers? Thanks
This is great! I think reading this, I loved every word. Seriously, keep posting the good information, bloggers like myself need it.
I dont like your style. Hope you will update the article. I still like the blog
Great post but i hate your blog design
Thanks for your comment. I’m sure you didn’t make it just to get a link to your website ;o)
You’re entitled to your opinion about the design of our blog, and we appreciate you expressing it.
Unless we get a LOT more negative feedback, we have no plans to change it.
Thanks for posting this series in your blog: We REALLY need to get more people educated about these scams so noone else will fall for it.This stuff really hit me hard when i stupidly fell for this scam. Call me stupid if you want but i was 17-18 and trying to get money for college. In the end i blew through my saving and also had these bastards take a loan out in my name; which im still paying off now, 6 years later
There truly is hardly anything being done to stop this garbage and even here in the US; my bank and police said oh well….nothing we can do…. better start paying off that loan…… in short terms.
Ive even read stories of people committing suicide over this because they went through all their retirement / savings and could not live anymore or support their family.
I cant even believe that people over in africa say “we deserve this” What a load of ignorant garbage. Some of us are “greedy” but i cant stand it when people label everyone just because of the life someone before us lived.
“John” Even if that is your real name; i truly dont feel sorry for you and you will never repent the sins you caused from the hundreds of people who’s lives you ruined/destroyed. Im at least glad your now helping to stop it and i hope you continue down that path.
The next time I read a weblog, I hope that it doesnt disappoint me as much as this one. I imply, I do know it was my choice to read, but I truly thought youd have one thing interesting to say. All I hear is a bunch of whining about one thing that you possibly can fix if you happen to werent too busy looking for attention.
I like your site. Keep it going,i have added you to my bookmarks will be back regular.Good work,thanks\thank you.
Many thanks for being my instructor on this subject matter. I enjoyed your own article quite definitely and most of all favored how you really handled the areas I considered to be controversial. You are always quite kind towards readers much like me and assist me in my existence. Thank you.